Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

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    Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Guest on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:12 am

    Seeing as it was so blatant and it isn't exactly fair play purposely getting yourself sent off. Rolling Eyes

    I reckon there is 2 ways to go...


    1) Ignore last nights yellow cards and just fine them.

    2) Make it a 3 match ban.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by kyro7 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:16 am

    Leave it because Mourinho is cool.


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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Guest on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:21 am

    Why did they make it so blatantly obvious? Couldn't they have just put a late tackle each on an Ajax player(preferably Suarez)

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by kyro7 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:29 am

    James wrote:Why did they make it so blatantly obvious? Couldn't they have just put a late tackle each on an Ajax player(preferably Suarez)
    They didn't want to cause harm on others, because Mourinho is a nice guy.


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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by menalawyerguy on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:37 am

    I didn't see it. What happened?

    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by lvrpl4life on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:42 am

    Mourinho told them both to get sent off so they serve their suspensions in the group stage before the knock-out round.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Guest on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:50 am

    Basically they got sent off so they have their 1 match suspension in the last group match and their cards are totally wiped for the knockout stages.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by menalawyerguy on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:51 am

    haha Just saw it on footytube.

    Begging for cards. Alonso's was hilarious. So fuckin obvious

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by North_Sea_Tiger on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:54 am

    Really clever actually. Havent seen it myself but I knew something was up when both got sent off so late in the game. Id let them off and just the 1 match ban because Mourinh is brilliant and that was quite clever

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Spider on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:02 pm

    kill em.

    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Kaka11|LFC on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:16 pm

    As NST said, it seems a legitimate tactic and you can't do much about it, respect for Mourinho, that was pretty clever. I don't see why you would give them a fine or a longer ban as what they did doesn't warrant and you can't really prove they did it on purpose, and even then theres no rule saying you can't purposely get sent off to save yourself the trouble in further rounds.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by ram_cr7 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:33 pm

    Mourinho is fucking genius. Surprised

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by menalawyerguy on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:38 pm

    Clever but douchey

    Just like Ronaldo is superb by cunty. Lots of dichotomies there are Real Madrid.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Guest on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:41 pm

    Kaka11|LFC wrote:As NST said, it seems a legitimate tactic and you can't do much about it, respect for Mourinho, that was pretty clever. I don't see why you would give them a fine or a longer ban as what they did doesn't warrant and you can't really prove they did it on purpose, and even then theres no rule saying you can't purposely get sent off to save yourself the trouble in further rounds.



    There isn't a rule saying you are not allowed to go in with both feet studs up when attempting to play the ball (just like Essien did and got sent off + 3 match ban)

    It's all about interpretation, they interpreted that as dangerous play... I don't think there is a rule against a goalkeeper blowing a whistle but they did that Barca keep for that.

    Surely what Ramos and Xabi Alonso did would be interpreted as bad sportsmanship / against the fair play rules.

    I reckon a fair punishment would be a 3 match ban.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Lux on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:47 pm

    Lol it's winning tactics and Mourinho is a winner.

    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Kaka11|LFC on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:49 pm

    That both feet studs up might not be a rule specifically but in general terms it is dangerous play which is part of the foul rule, in these modern days a two footed challenge pretty much guarentees you a red. In game, bad sportsmanship warrants a yellow, even then its one of those things that you have to manage, he clearly was aware of their situation and used their guaranteed qualfication to their advantage. I don't think its bad sportsmanship to be honest, atleast they did it in a sensible way too instead of getting sent of from dangerous play.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Guest on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:56 pm

    I like Mourinho but he has got it wrong here. He should be able to win without having to be a bad sport.

    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Kaka11|LFC on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:02 pm

    Its not bad sportsmanship though unless you consider it unfair play, but its a legitimate tactic that anybody can do if they wish. Its not really unfair to other teams, if anything its a good thing because it ensures the best players are available, didn't Howard Webb not send off De Jong despite kicking Alonso in the chest because he didn't want to ruin the game? De Jong should be banned from football because hes a brute and doesn't abide by fair play but that hasn't happened.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by ram_cr7 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:04 pm

    Kaka11|LFC wrote:Its not bad sportsmanship though unless you consider it unfair play, but its a legitimate tactic that anybody can do if they wish. Its not really unfair to other teams, if anything its a good thing because it ensures the best players are available for the matches giving a better chance for a better game which is what its all really about.


    This.

    And also what you said earlier, its not like they got sent off for dangerous play.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Guest on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:04 pm

    It is unfair play. Look at it like this. They draw a team in the next round, Alonso and Ramos both get booked first leg. In theory they should be missing the 2nd leg, but they had their cards right. That's why it is unfair...

    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Kaka11|LFC on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:09 pm

    But they've all ready served their suspension, it was only two yellows so its a one match suspension, either way they are serving a suspension so what more can you do? They've been punished so its not really unfair. Also, if the team they come up against need Ramos and Alonso out to beat them then thats slack.

    Don't know if you saw my edit but Howard Webb didn't send off De Jong despite kicking Alonso in the chest because he didn't want to ruin the game. De Jong should be banned from football because hes a brute and doesn't abide by fair play but that hasn't happened.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by menalawyerguy on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:11 pm

    Eh, I'm torn on this one. I see both sides. It's definitely a cunt move. But is there a rule against intentionally getting a yellow card to reset your count? Obviously not. Is it against the notion of fair play? Probably. But if we open up that fair play gambit as a tool for a league (in this case UEFA) to give out bans pursuant to their subjective interpretation of events, we could be heading down a slippery slope.

    Overall, I dont see this is a massive problem. UEFA, FIFA, the FAs need to get diving and simulating under wraps first. That should be the item highest on their fair play agenda.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by kyro7 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:14 pm

    If we're going to talk about fair play we'd have 100's of problems every game, everyone wants to win.


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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Guest on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 pm

    Kaka11|LFC wrote:But they've all ready served their suspension, it was only two yellows so its a one match suspension, either way they are serving a suspension so what more can you do? They've been punished so its not really unfair. Also, if the team they come up against need Ramos and Alonso out to beat them then thats slack.

    Don't know if you saw my edit but Howard Webb didn't send off De Jong despite kicking Alonso in the chest because he didn't want to ruin the game. De Jong should be banned from football because hes a brute and doesn't abide by fair play but that hasn't happened.



    Why are you bringing in something completely different in to the matter?


    There is no punishment for them... Madrid are through, Ramos and Alonso wouldn't of played in the next match anyway. If nothing happens they have basically had their cards wiped without being punished.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Marvin on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:17 pm

    They didn't make any dangerous tackles so therefore there's no need for an extra ban.

    And what about what Suarez did in the WC? Surely that's worse than this.


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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by kyro7 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:18 pm

    coolmarvin wrote:They didn't make any dangerous tackles so therefore there's no need for an extra ban.

    And what about what Suarez did in the WC? Surely that's worse than this.
    Suarez bit someone on the neck recently.. Neutral


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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by Guest on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:21 pm

    I didn't like what Suarez did but the only thing you can say is that it was pure instinct just like Henrys handball. These 2 incidents where blatantly obvious and planned.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by menalawyerguy on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:25 pm

    kyro7 wrote:If we're going to talk about fair play we'd have 100's of problems every game, everyone wants to win.


    Exactly. Slippery slope.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by menalawyerguy on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:28 pm

    James wrote:I didn't like what Suarez did but the only thing you can say is that it was pure instinct just like Henrys handball. These 2 incidents where blatantly obvious and planned.


    The players in all three situations behaved very badly and blatantly subverted the rules of the game. However, they served (or will serve) the punishments called for at the time of their infractions. Unfortunately, I do not agree with the severity of the punishments in place. I think Suarez should have been banned for 3 games and I think Alonso and Ramos probably should too. However, there's no precedent like that in place. You can't change the rules or the punishments midstream and then retroactively apply them to situations. You're opening up a dangerous can at that point.

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    Re: Alonso and Ramos - What should happen?

    Post by kyro7 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:31 pm

    Cristiano Ronaldo and Jose Mourinho. not worthy


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